blog response

Chapter 17:

1. What do you think about bell hooks view on feminism and love? Do you agree or disagree, and why?

The further I read into the chapter, the more I agreed with what she was saying. I agree that a relationship needs equality and respect and that there should be no dominance. I think that feminists made a huge mistake in disregarding relationships with men and putting the focus on gaining rights and power. It put the idea into women's heads that they cannot be feminists and be in heterosexual relationships at the same time. hooks states that, "Many females who wanted to bond with men felt that they could not nurture theses ties and be committed to feminist movement. In actuality, we should have been spreading the word that feminism would make it possible for women and men to know love. We know that now" (hooks, 2000, pg. 103). It's hard for me to imagine dominance existing in a romantic relationship, because I don't think I've really experienced it. Which is why the idea that both parties of the relationship must be feminists to know true love didn't really occur to me, but it makes sense.

2. Do you see any patriarchal views about dating, relationships, marriage or love in the previous clip? If so, what are they? Do you think that Patti Stanger's view on love alines with bell hooks' view? Why or why not? Does the previous clip seem to fit with society's view on love, relationships and/or marriage? Why or why not?

    

The first patriarchal view on relationships that stands out to me is how Patti Stanger's says that most women would like the option to stay home with the kids. She says that by staying home with the kids, there will be less disciplinary problems. She does not mention the idea of the father staying home with the children. There is also the part about giving the man your own business card and telling him to call you rather than you calling him. That just encourages patriarchal thinking where the man is in charge of the relationship. I don't think Patti's view on love alines with bell hook's view at all. hooks is more about being independent and not relying on a man while Patti is encouraging women to find rich men to take care of them. I think the clip fits with some of society's view on love. I certainly don't think that all women are concerned with finding a rich man to take care of them. I'd like to think that more women are concerned with finding a man who truly loves and respects them, regardless of how much money is in their bank account. I think most women today would like to be independent and not financially rely on man. On the other hand, with how awful the economy is, I think that some women want to find a rich man so that they won't have to worry about money issues.  

Chapter 18:

1. Can you think of instances/parables/specific scriptures that shows male dominance or a patriarchal ideology?

I have no specific examples from the Bible unfortunately. The only examples I can really think of are in art. In all of the art history classes I have taken, we study a lot of religious art. Men are painted or sculpted with bulging muscles and give off a sense of power. The women on the other hand, are more voluptuous and seem more nurturing (excluding artists like Michelangelo who painted "women" from male models and made them very muscular). By far, the most common women in religious art is Mary, who is obviously always shown with baby Jesus, which puts her into the nurturing mother role. 

To demonstrate this, here are some religious examples of the muscular, powerful male and the nurturing motherly female:

Michelangelo's David (1501-04)

 DaVinci's Study for Kneeling Leda (1505-07)

Michelangelo's Pietà  (1498-99)

Chapter 19:

1. The above video is of Madonna's song "Papa Don't Preach". After watching the video and listening to the song, is there anything that could be a biblical reference or refer to religion in general? Do you think this is an accurate representation of the Christian religion - or could it be a societal "rule"?

I didn't really find any biblical references in the video other than the word preach...maybe I'm missing something? I suppose you could look at the "papa" referred to in the lyrics as God or a higher power that she is asking guidance from. I'm really not sure what other references this video has to religion...

2. Do you find this to be true? And how do you think these “grade-school level primers” should be presented so that the message is successfully communicated to the younger audience? 

I definitely agree that "grade-school primers" should exist for younger and less educated audiences. I think feminist ideas are often presented in confusing, lengthy, and complicated settings, often in upper education. I think if feminist ideas were simplified, more people would pay attention to them and possibly agree. People today have such a short attention span that they don't want to read a book or take a class to learn about feminism, but they might just read a pamphlet, which could change their way of thinking.

Blog 7 Response

Chapter 17: To Love Again - The Heart of Feminism
I think bell hooks view on love is completely accurate.  Even today women still believe they must choose between a life of feminism or one with love.  Feminists are still held to former stereotypical descriptions as butch, effeminate women.  All individuals seek power and equality in their lives and it only makes sense that in only focusing on these elements one can find himself isolated.  In reality, companionship is what we all are seeking.  We would just like to find that individual that sees and takes us for who we are and does so through establishing a relationship upon the values of trust and equality.

I think this message can even kind of be seen in the movie The Little Rascals.  Even the children in this film have a skewed perception of love, for in their He-Man Women Hater’s Club pledge the vow to stay away from girls and never-ever fall in love in efforts to retain their power.

Patti Stanger, the Millionaire Matchmaker
Patti has an extremely patriarchal view on dating and married life.  This is evident not only in this short interview clip, but also in all of her episodes of Millionaire Matchmaker.  In the 3 tips she provided for women seeking a partner, she used stereotypes on both ends.  She further suggests the notion that all women are aiming to be in a position where they are able to stay home and care for children instead of wanting a career for themselves.  I was shocked she started the interview with the term “hunter male”.  I think this goes against everything the feminist movement has been working for.  This type of mentality conflicts with bell hooks’ suggestions since it focuses primarily on the power and inequalities in romantic relationships instead of mutual respect.

As far as societal alignment with Patti’s statements, I think there would be a large amount of people who both agree and disagree with them.  There are still many women who wish to find themselves in a romantic relationship which allows them to stay at home for 4-5 years to raise children as Patti stated.  However, I believe that mentality is becoming extinct as we currently see more women attending college than males, and subsequently higher rates of women entering professional, upper-level jobs in corporate America.

Chapter 18: Feminist Spirituality

Although I can’t recall a specific Bible verse or passage that refers to male patriarchy, I do know that the Bible is full of such references.  First off, the entire structure of the Catholic Church is a great reflection of patriarchy.  Its hierarchical system is solely comprised of males at the upper levels and women are left to positions of servitude and nurturing.  Women typically serve as nuns and other community involvement leaders as well as child-care providers during church events.  I believe this alone is enough to show that the Christian church is not a place of equality, but instead one which promotes a patriarchal society.

Madonna Video
Madonna’s video did not seem too religiously rooted to me after I watched the video.  Obviously I could tell that the line “but I made up mind; I’m keeping my baby” was repeated throughout to emphasize that she was siding with the Catholic church on the issue of abortion.  She mentions that her friends told her to give up the child because she wasn’t ready to care for one but she instead chose her own path to raise the child with its father by her side.

Chapter 19: Visionary Feminism
I do believe that academia is behind in promoting the views of feminists.  Although some people may be against teaching feminism in schools, I think if they realized that it would essentially be anti-sexist education people would be more compliant.  People are not sure what exactly feminism believes, and I would include myself in this grouping until I began this course a few short months ago.  It should not take until the age of 21 for an individual to be exposed to feminist theory and its impact on our society.  Only through integration into early childhood education can one expect the anti-sexist ideas presented through feminism to spread not only to members of academia, but of our entire society.

Blog 7 - Natasha Doty

Chapter 17
I agree with hooks's statements about feminism and love. I disagree with the early notions that love had to be done away with, but understand where these women were coming from. However, I really like this statement by hooks: "But I still wanted the love of a good man, and I still believed I could find that love" (hooks, 2000, p. 101). I think it is possible to find love where there is mutual respect and power, without the man dominating over the woman in the name of patriarchy. "Mutual partnership is the foundation of love" (hooks, 2000, p. 104).

I think there are some patriarchal views about relationships in the interview with Patty, such as when she mentions that women want to be able to stay at home with their children. However, I think she also challenges that by saying that you need to have your own financial independence, meaning the woman would not be relying on the man. Having watched the show, I think that Patty's views both align with and challenge hooks. Patty works with millionaires who are women, where the women then has the financial power. However, she is also still "old-fashioned" in the fact that the men are the one who plan the dates, and the  men will get chewed out if they don't treat the woman right.

Chapter 18
I've never read the Bible, so I don't know of any specific scriptures that show patriarchal ideology. However, I think it's interesting that when people are thinking of "strong Bible names" for their children, they are always male names and not female names. I don't really understand the Madonna song, but I guess it could be a reference to religion with her saying she's keeping her baby, depending on their religious views about having a baby (with what I'm assuming is) before marriage.

I think it's also interesting how religion is often used to promote a strong heterosexual identity. The following video is something I saw on CNN.com yesterday about GLBT students at Brigham Young University (BYU) speaking up as part of the "It Gets Better" campaign. Not completely related to the discussion at hand, but I wanted to share it because I think the message is pretty powerful.

It Gets Better at Brigham Young University

(byuitgetsbetter, 2012)

Chapter 19

Yes, I do think this is true that some of the feminist knowledge and teachings are in such an elitist language that they are not accessible to everyone. I think this goes back to our discussion on feminist education for critical consciousness. bell hooks (2000) suggests things such as books on tape, songs, radio, and television as ways to spread feminist knowledge (p. 23). I think these forms could also work for children. However, I also believe that some of this education needs to come from (and not only come from, but be MODELED by... talk is cheap) parents, who serve as strong role models for their children. 

hooks, b. (2000). Feminism is for everybody: Passionate politics. 

Chapter 17: To Love Again - The Heart of Feminism


In Chapter 17, bell hooks discusses that to be involved in the feminist movement, many women had to forgo romantic love because of patriarchal values such as domination, control and coercion. bell hooks states, "Early on the feminist critique of love was not complex enough. Rather than specifically challenging patriarchal misguided assumptions of love, it just presented love as the problem. We were to do away with love and put in its place a concern with gaining rights and power. Then, no one talked about the reality that women would risk hardening our hearts and end up bing just as emotionally closed as the patriarchal men or butch females we were rejecting in the name of feminist rebellion. And for the most part this is exactly what happened. Rather than rethinking lot and insisting on its importance and value, feminist discourse on love simply stopped" (p.102).


hooks explains that love can only truly exist through feminist thinking: no existing domination, mutual respect, and equal rights amongst partners. This is true love. "To choose feminist politics, then, is a choice to love" (p. 104).


What do you think about bell hooks view on feminism and love? Do you agree or disagree, and why?

I completely agree with hooks’ view that “no existing domination, mutual respect, and equal rights amongst partners. This is true love.” However, I don’t believe that one must be a feminist thinker to hold these beliefs. I can’t call myself a feminist if I’m going by bell hooks’ standards of what a feminist truly is, but I certainly agree that there must be those components in a relationship. I would add more to what “true love” is, though. I think bell hooks’ definition of what true love is fails to recognize that true love must include wanting the very best for the other in the relationship. True love is a sacrifice of oneself for the other person. That doesn’t mean that one partner has more power than the other, but that both would be willing to lay down their lives for the other.

I thought that the Millionaire Matchmaker clip was very interesting, because I think what she was saying would both make bell hooks applaud and cringe at the same time. While it’s certainly patriarchal to encourage someone to find a man that can support you so that you can stay home and raise the kids, she’s also saying that you have to be self-sufficient. She gets a little crazy in her thinking though when she stereotypes men as steak eating creatures that you should go to the gym to meet.

In Chapter 18, Feminist Spirituality, bell hooks talks about spirituality and religion, specifically in terms of Christianity. She explains that women have long used their religious beliefs to escape the male domination they experience - but then makes that religious escape null and void by saying that religion itself if male-dominated.

"...Western metaphysical dualism was the ideological foundation of all forms of group oppression, sexism, racism, etc., and that such thinking formed the basis of Judeo-Christian belife systems" (p. 105-106).
In the chapter, however, hooks never states a specific example of how religion (specifically Christianity) is patriarchal. Can you think of instances/parables/specific scriptures that shows male dominance or a patriarchal ideology? *If not, no one's going to be judged for lack of Bible knowledge - trust me :)

I think this is a really sticky subject that can be very misunderstood by many people. I’ve heard many people talk about how Christianity suppresses women, especially the Catholic Church (i.e. women aren’t allowed to become priests). I think there’s so much history and tradition involved that’s misunderstood by many people, so it’s not surprising that people view Christianity to be male dominated. While it’s true that the majority of figures in the bible were male, and that most church leaders are men, it’s not to say that women didn’t play amazing roles in salvation history.

I found a really interesting article (I’ll post the link- check it out!) that addresses the role that women played in the bible and as saints. Here are a few quotes that I pulled out of it that I found to be most interesting:

“The Old Testament shows that women participated in the covenant with God and took active roles in salvation history. During the past four centuries, though, their role has been obscured, most recently and ironically by radical feminism” (Tkacz, 2006)

“disinformation about biblical women has become popular since the 1970s, with the result that Judaism and Christianity, especially Catholicism, have been maligned as misogynistic. The wholesome truth, based on the actual historical evidence, is that Judaism affirmed the spiritual equality of the sexes and recounted the deeds and words of many women and that Christianity affirmed and expanded upon this heritage (Tkacz, 2006)

Here’s the link for the whole article:

http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/are-old-testament-women-nameless-silent-passive-victims

CH 19: Visionary Feminism

This chapter discusses the vision of a better future in which feminist thinkers have been trying to achieve since the beginning of feminism. The main goal being, to change women’s lives by breaking off from male dominance and increasing their personal power. The chapter also mentions reasons why this message is not being heard, one of the reasons being lack of effective communication to the public. According to hooks, feminist/anti-sexist education is needed in the communities as well as elementary education.

Question: hooks states that, “Today in academic circles much of the most celebrated feminist theory is written in a sophisticated jargon that only the well-educated can read. Most people in our society do not have a basic understanding of feminism; they cannot acquire that understanding form a wealth of diverse material, grade school-level primers, and so on, because this material does not exist. We must create it if we are to rebuild feminist movement that is truly for everyone” (hooks 2000, pg. 112)

Do you find this to be true? And how do you think these “grade-school level primers” should be presented so that the message is successfully communicated to the younger audience?

To be completely honest, even after taking this course and reading “Feminism is for Everybody,” I’m still a little bit confused about what feminism really is. I think that’s because people view it in different ways. I would say that bell hooks is a fairly radical feminist, but I’m sure there are other feminists who hold differing views than hers. That being said, I think that the most important thing to teach our children is a very simple lesson: the lesson to love. I don’t think it’s important to get into the details of feminist politics or the nitty gritty of it all, but just to raise our children and teach our children to treat all with respect and love.

blog 7

When reading this chapter I think it is very interesting and makes me think a lot of stuff about relationship. When reading this book I didn’t really think that it was going to be the greatest book that I have ever read so it open my eyes. When thinking about love relationship I don’t think you need to find the domination of the male and female in the relationship it should be a equal thing about the relationship. In the bell hooks according to the book it is the that the male is the dominate aspect in the relationship. Just because the male thinks he has power doesn’t mean it is always right because I know some girls that just want it there way or the highway.

2. No not necessarily because there is a difference in the patriarchy and marrying someone with money and going after the person that is called a gold digger. In the clip she also talks about the women needs to find the male hunter. What does that mean that we are hunting for the women and we have nothing to do beside hide until we see that perfect girl. Also she says that women need to have a “ stash cash” for emergency incase the man takes everything away from them or just if they want to jet out of there. Patti’s view seems like the women are embracing finding love with money and want to stay at home.

When looking at the religious side it is talking about sex before marriage and that is in the bible which called adultery that is in the bible belief. Then another thing in her song is the word preach. When I hear that all I can think about is church and the priest preaching to the people in church. It talks about abortion and weather or not it is a good thing. Which I don’t think it is good at all if you are going to have a babe I think you should let it be born.

I think that we should watch what kids are watching at the kind of age. The message of watching the social media can corrupt the kids mind on thinking that it is right or wrong on what they watch on tv. They should eliminate  those that promote patriarchy to the TV shows or other social media. Then in school and the education about feminist movement they should just take it a little bit about it the kids are just still in middle school and learning and developing there body’s still. But also I think that is it appropriate to learn a little bit when you are child. Before taking this class I don’t think I really learned much about the feminist movement, but now that I have taken this course I have a learned a great deal of it and it is very interesting to me and more people should learn more about it.

Blog response 7 by Anna

1) What do you think about bell hooks view on feminism and love? Do you agree or disagree, why?


I have to say that I disagree with some of bell hook's views on feminism and love.  The very first statement in ch.17 by bell hooks is "If women and men want to know love, we have to yearn for feminism"  I do not fully agree with this idea.  This is saying that individuals who do not strongly believe or practice feminist ideas do not know what love is, and I think hook's statement is very closed minded.  Another quote from this chapter by hooks "Feminist thinking and practice emphasize the value of mutual growth and self-actualization in partnerships and in parenting" (p.103).  This may be true but we need to view this idea subjectively and understand that everyone is different and therefore has a different idea of what a loving relationship consists of.  Hooks doesn't have the place to say that a person who doesn't hold the same views cannot experience love.


2) Do you see any patriarchal views about dating, relationships, marriage or love in the previous clip?  If so, what are they? Do you think that Patti Stanger's view on love alines with bell hook's view?  Why or why not?  Does the previous clip seem to fit with society's view on love, relationships and/or marriage? Why or why not?

Not necessarily because I think there's a difference between patriarchy and marrying for money or "gold digging".  Patti's ideal matchmaking situation seems to be women having their own finances and then marrying for money because of their personal desire to be home with their kids. ( she even mentions men marrying rich women)  This sounds more like some womens' (at least the women Patti is referring to)  dream than patriarchy because the idea is that they want to live in this situation.
Because Patti's view on love seems to be all about the comfort of the woman and the woman having "back up" finances, it doesn't aline with bell hook's view.  Patti's idea is more about embracing the power that women have to be able to marry rich and stay at home.


Madonna's "Papa Don't Preach":
I think this is more about her having her own mind and taking control of her life even though it doesn't agree with society or her father's views.


Ch. 19:
I suppose I do find this true because I would have never been exposed to feminist theory if I wouldn't have taken this course.  Looking back at my education, I believe the only time that I was exposed to any feminist idea was briefly learning about women's rights in some history class in middle school.  I think it's safe to say that most people will not get the privilege to try and learn and understand feminist views.

How do you think these "grade-school primers" should be presented so that the message is successfully communicated to the younger audience?

I guess for starters we should be more critical about the messages that kid's t.v shows and books send to the viewer/reader, and eliminate those that promote patriarchy.  From there, schools could add some sort of education about the feminist movement that would be appropriate and easily learned by children.

Last Blog Post!!

What do you think about bell hooks view on feminism and love? Do you agree or disagree, and why?
I disagree but can appreciate where she is coming from. I think that just because a couple does not believe in feminism does not mean that they are not in love. Some women are okay with and like not having power. As horrible as that sounds some people are happy with that situation. Just like some men are okay with not having power in a relationship. I do not think that feminism and love go hand in hand at all. Yes respect is a very large part of both but just because a women wants to stay home and be a housewife (giving her husband power for the most part) does not mean that she does not love her husband or her life.
I can see where feminist and love go hand in hand also though. I can see that respect and mutual agreement are very big concepts for both love and feminism.


Do you see any patriarchal views about dating, relationships, marriage or love in the previous clip? If so, what are they? Do you think that Patti Stanger's view on love alines with bell hooks' view? Why or why not? Does the previous clip seem to fit with society's view on love, relationships and/or marriage? Why or why not?
“Men want Happy Women” I love Patti Stanger even though she hates redheads(RUDE!). But actually I think that she is very much a feminist. She does not tell women to give up their independence or life just for a guy. When I have watched the show the girls that she recruits(or guys) are always very educated very well off on their own people. I love the quote she says about “Men want happy women” in response to not looking like a super model. I think that is the best advice! I am not sure if the clip fits our societies view on love or not. I think that it does in the sense that people want to rush into love and that in a sense is what Patti is selling. I think our society however is still in this women have to stop everything when they find love and I see Patti and very against that thinking. She herself is a very independent millionaire.

In the chapter, however, hooks never states a specific example of how religion (specifically Christianity) is patriarchal. Can you think of instances/parables/specific scriptures that shows male dominance or a patriarchal ideology?
Okay so I grew up and went to a private catholic school for 13yrs. The one thing that has always stuck in my mind when it comes to how male dominated the Bible seems is that it was written by old men from word of mouth! I am not saying that the Bible is wrong, but I am saying that it is definitely written much differently. One very large male dominance is the fact that Eve is made from Adams rib, like she is part of him and is only there because Adam was bored. Also with in the Catholic church only males can be priests and in come catholic parishes girls are not allowed to be altar servers. Another biblical male dominated part is the fact that Jesus’ 12 BFFs where all guys. And when someone mentions that maybe there was a girl involved (Mary Magdalene I think) the church was pissed! The Da Vinci Code really brought this to light and I think that many heads of churches were upset. The media clip that I found is about a documentary of Mary Magdalene is entitled “Secrets of Mary Magdalene”. The fact that the title is has the word “secrets” I think means a lot.


is there anything that could be a biblical reference or refer to religion in general? Do you think this is an accurate representation of the Christian religion - or could it be a societal "rule"?
Oh Madanna always keeping in classy! I can see some religious references such as the fact the song is talking about sex before marriage which is definitely a religious belief. Also the fact that the song has the word “preach” in it. Preaching is definitely a religious phrase. Also the song is manly about abortion and whether or not it is appropriate to have this baby. “Give us your blessing” a blessing is also a very religious phrase. I think it is a decent I wouldn’t say accurate but decent representation of the Christian religion, obviously Christians are pro-life and waiting to have sex in till after marriage. I also think though that it has become somewhat a social rule in that even those that are not religious still believe that abortion is wrong and are pro-life

Do you find this to be true? And how do you think these “grade-school level primers” should be presented so that the message is successfully communicated to the younger audience?
I completely agree with the agreement that educated people are the only ones that can fully appreciate anything really not just feminism. However i think one has to watch how they present that statement. Not everyone is dumb some people are just better at looking outside of the box in situations and ideas.
I think that the feminist culture/theory is very big. I think there is a lot in it. I think it just needs to be simplified. Women want to be respected. I feel like that simple statement really means a lot, and is what every point they are trying to make is about. I think that the people who are very against the feminist movement are the people who are not well educated on THIS subject. I think they see only the negatives or the very very feminist type people that do not account for everyone.

Respect is all we need 